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The motive behind these modifications to the Welsh (580 AD - 1420 AD, List Number 19, Book 3) is my general dissatisfaction with these lists in general, and the later part (1400 - 1420) in particular.
My concerns are in the following areas:
The number of compulsory troops in the post 1100 army
The later, post 1300, classification of the troops
The composition of the French allies for the later army, 1400 - 1420
Suggested Amendments
Suggested Amendments
1. All of the available evidence point to the fact that the North Welsh armies were mainly Spearmen, while the Southern armies were mainly Archers. Unfortunately due to the high number of compulsory troops of each sort, you are forced to have large number of what should be the minority type. Therefore I suggest the following modifications to the list:
Only after 1100 AD - North Welsh only
Welsh spearmen - Irr Aux (X) @ 3 AP 30 to 120
Welsh archers - Irr Bw (O) @ 4 AP or Irr Ps (O) @ 2 AP 8 to 26
Only after 1100 AD - South Welsh only
Welsh spearmen - Irr Aux (X) @ 3 AP 10 to 30
Welsh archers - Irr Bw (O) @ 4 AP or Irr Ps (O) @ 2 AP 26 to 80
2. A According to the list North Welsh spearmen must be changed from Wb (F) to Aux (X) after 1100 AD, yet the South Welsh retain their warbands all the way up to 1420. This must be a mistake, the southern Welsh surely must have adopted to the changing times. Therefore perhaps the list should be amended to allow the southern Welsh to allow them to also change to Aux (X).
Only after 1300 AD (or earlier)
Upgrade South Welsh spearmen to Irr Aux (X) @ 3 AP
Owain Glyn Dwr leads the Welsh army forward
B Also, I feel that there are problems with the later period in the list., From about 1350 and definitely during the period of Owain Glyndwr's last Welsh revolt of 1400 to 1420. The Welsh participated in all the British wars of this period as part of the English army and surely account should be taken of the influence these experiences had on the Welsh. The 100 Years War English (1322 - 1455) list, for example, rates the Welsh archers as Reg Bw (O) or Reg Bw (S) after 1350. While many of the Welsh leadership, and presumably their retainers and followers, had been part of the English army at various times. With one Owain Glyndwr, for example, campaigning with the English army in Scotland in 1384 - 5 and participating in the naval victory at Cadzand (1387). Finally much of the campaigning in Wales at this time seems to involve a relatively small group of followers ranging across the countryside. For the Welsh lacked the means to conduct more than raids against major enemy forces and castles.
Therefore for these reasons I suggest that the following changes be made. Some of the forces should be changed to reflect contemporary English practice. That some of the archers should become regular and / or superior, while the mounted troops should be able to imitate the tactics they would have used while serving in the English army. There should also be a greater emphasis on archery generally, and the option to field a 'raiding' force.
Suggested Welsh 1400 - 1420
Suggested Welsh 1400 - 1420
C-in-C: Irr Cv (O) @ 17 AP or Irr Kn(F) @ 19 AP or Irr Kn (O) @ 20 AP or Reg Kn (I) @ 30 AP 1
Sub-general: Irr Cv (O) @ 17 AP or Irr Kn(F) @ 19 AP or Irr Kn (O) @ 20 AP or Reg Kn (I) @ 30 AP 0 - 1
Ally-general: Irr Cv (O) @ 12 AP or Irr Kn(F) @ 14 AP or Irr Kn (O) @ 15 AP or Reg Kn (I) @ 20 AP 0 - 2
Uchelwyr or men-at-arms: Irr Cv (O) @ 7 AP or Irr Kn (F) @ 9 AP or Irr Kn (O) @10 AP 2 - 9
Upgrade Uchelwyr to Reg Kn (I) @ 10 AP 0 - 4
Archers: Irr Bw (S) @ 5 AP or Irr Bw (O) @ 4 AP or Irr Ps(O) @ 2 AP 20 - 100
Upgrade archers to Reg Bw (S) @ 7 AP or Reg Bw (O) @ 5 AP or Reg Ps (O) @ 2 AP 0 - 20
Horses to mount archers @ 1 AP 0 - 20
Spearmen: Irr Ax (X) @ 3 AP 20 - 100 *
Javelin men: Irr Ps (S) @3 AP 8 - 16 *
Marcher or Percy allies - List: 100 Years War English (Bk 4) 0 - 12
French allies - see below
A contemporary view of Owain Glyn Dwr
Minima marked * apply only if any spearmen, javelin men, non mounted archers or allies are used. This represents the mobile raiding force.
3. During the last rebellion the Welsh were allied to Scotland and the French. They received help from them, particularly in 1405 when a French force operated with the Welsh. Also from 1403 at the earliest they received help from the French (and possibly the Scottish !) navy. Indeed the combined force invaded England and got as far as Worcester before turning back towards Wales. There are no battles, as far as I know, but skirmishes happened. while there was a confrontation and skirmishing at Woodbury Hill, Worcestershire. Important if only because where I was brought up would have had a perfect view of the action, had I been alive at the time.
The army lists now reflect the French participation, but I feel could still do with some modification. The sources I have seem to agree on the composition of the French force that came to Wales in 1405. It was under Jean de Rieux, while the crossbowmen were under Jean de Hangest. There were 800 Men at arms, 600 crossbowmen and 1200 'light' troops and they had been recruited in Brittany and Normandy. The naval resources are not quite so certain with various sizes being quoted, 2 large vessels of war and 30 small through to 140 ships (perhaps 32 warships and the rest transport?). What is clear is that some were lost enroute to Wales, including most or all of the men at arms horses. They also agree that when the force 'left', it was in fact only the men at arms that left, with 500 crossbow and 1200 'light' troops remaining behind. Therefore I suggest the following list be used.
Only in 1403 -1409
French naval contingent: As naval contingent of Medieval French (1330 - 1455) list.
Only in 1405 - 1407 and only if French naval contingent not used.
French Allied General: Irr Kn (S) @ 22 AP or Irr Bd (S) @ 12 AP 0 - 1
French Men at arms, etc. : Irr Kn (S) @ 12 AP or Irr Bd (S) @ 7 AP 3 - 4 *
French archers: Irr Bw (I) @ 3 AP 0 - 3
French crossbowmen: Irr Ps(O) @ 2AP or Irr Bw (O) @ 4 AP 2 - 4
French brigans: Irr Ax (X) @ 3 AP 1 - 3
French ribaulds: Irr Hd (O) @ 1 AP 0 - 1
Bretons (the army had been raised there): Irr Ps (S) @ 3 AP 0 - 3
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